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Toot - will/should he be invited back?
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econalum
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:18 am    Post subject: Toot - will/should he be invited back? Reply with quote

Well, there has been a LOT of discussion in the game thread on this topic. Now that the season is over, I think that it is time to create a centering thread.

My vote - find a new coach.

Why?

1. Lack of Playoff performance and success.
2. Inconsistent team play within each season. Some seasons, it feels like the team quits.
3. Energy and Excitement is lacking - the program seems to be tracking sideways.
4. Mediocrity should not be institutionalized. And it has been quite mediocre in perhaps the top league in College Hockey. And with N.D. entering, it will be even more competitive. And UM will be lucky to reach the H.E. playoffs, with so many 'hockey first' colleges in the conference.

Finally, change is good. Unless one has a track record of 70%+ winning percentage, or so, you change the coach to get the next level. 11 years is plenty of time to give his program a shot. It peaked, and has since declined, at leadt in my view.

Here is his official bio http://www.umassathletics.com/sports/m-hockey/mtt/cahoon_don00.html

In my view, his best days are 4 or 5 years past. Time to change.

Econ
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Berkman
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Toot stays.

http://blog.masslive.com/umass-hockey/2012/03/umass_hockey_coach_toot_cahoon_will_be_retained_wants_to_stay_on_even_longer.html
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Mass Grad
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sad. He has failed to keep up with the competition. Recruiting, game management, player motivation all below minimal expectations. He has had his chances.
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Rocks22
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Toot's retention comes as a surprise to anyone they haven't been paying close attention to the hockey program in recent yeaes (or been reading my blog enough Wink ). For a variety of reasons, there was no way McCutcheon was going to make a change.
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bleedmaroon
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think the retention is a surprise for 2012-13 Rocks. Him staying on for 2013-14 and beyond is the part that disappoints and maddens many. He may be rejuvenated, but most are feeling quite the opposite.
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InnervisionsUMASS
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the midst of reading about all of this over the last two years, I've seen a lot of people calling for his head, but no real, viable replacement candidates being suggested. A few pipedreams, sure, but that's it.
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Rocks22
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bleedmaroon wrote:
I don't think the retention is a surprise for 2012-13 Rocks. Him staying on for 2013-14 and beyond is the part that disappoints and maddens many. He may be rejuvenated, but most are feeling quite the opposite.


He WANTS to stay on beyond but I've heard no news of an upcoming extension. His contract is up in a year.

IV, I can give you a list quite easily but I'm not going to write about new coaches until we're looking for one. There are viable candidates out there.
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Last edited by Rocks22 on Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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jjmc85
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

InnervisionsUMASS wrote:
In the midst of reading about all of this over the last two years, I've seen a lot of people calling for his head, but no real, viable replacement candidates being suggested.

The same could be said about Kevin Morris.
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InnervisionsUMASS
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know you can, Rocks. I also believe you know more about hockey and this program and the majority of us combined. You really are the last person I was referring to.

The Morris situation was a completely different beast. Comparing the situations isn't really possible. Morris took a strong team and made it worse over 3 years, during a VERY important period of time for the program and the biggest decision the school has ever made about the program. If we were going to stay as a 1-AA team, then I'd agree with you that we should have been providing names of viable candidates to replace him... but only a few of us had any real idea what the gravity of the move to 1-A would be and who could do it (a current 1-A coach, an up-and-coming 1-AA coach, an NFL person?) Hard to throw names out there when everything is so up in the air. I don't see how that is at all similar to Toot and the Hockey program.



Based on what bleedmaroon posted in the BC thread:

bleedmaroon wrote:

Since 2000:

missed
missed
6th then to Garden
3rd (thank you Lowell for the forfeit wins)
8th
8th
4th NCAA
8th
7th
7th
8th
8th



... we've been a bottom tier hockey east team his whole career here. We've made some runs, no doubt, but he has been pretty consistent. So, IF we were let Toot go, #1) who can we realistically bring in that will turn us into a middle tier program consistently and not keep us at the same level, and #2) who realistically would actually want to come here?


I don't think the game as "passed by" Toot. I just don't think he was the God send that he was made out to be early on. I think he is a solid coach who has done the best he can with what and who we are in this conference. 6th, 7th and 8th place sucks, but it's bettern than 9th and 10th place and our team is in more games these days than it was prior.

I honestly don't know what can/will get us over the hump so that we can become a middle of the pack or top of the pack team year in and year out, but I am just not convinced that the way to get there is by canning him.

That's my two cents... I'll let you hockey buffs continue your arguments now Smile
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wmmmfan
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would think with everything going on around the University athletic teams that a buy out on the final year wasn't going to happen. Also, I would assume McCutcheon getting football into an FBS league and all that came with it (new coach,making a deal with the Kraft family and the MAC), keeping up with conference changes/possible opportunities the AD didn't have time to thoroughly prepare to conduct a proper search for the HC position.

I would like the coach to turn it around, but I think the team has under achieved over the last several years and a change is needed.
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jjmc85
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

InnervisionsUMASS wrote:
The Morris situation was a completely different beast. Comparing the situations isn't really possible. Morris took a strong team and made it worse over 3 years, during a VERY important period of time for the program and the biggest decision the school has ever made about the program. If we were going to stay as a 1-AA team, then I'd agree with you that we should have been providing names of viable candidates to replace him...

If the fire Morris rants didn't start until the University announced it's decision to upgrade, then this would make sense. However, the FIRE MORRIS! Thread started in October of 2010, when as far as everyone knew, we were going to stay FCS forever. I asked in the beginning of it who would replace him, and it was pretty much dismissed. Everyone seemed ok with letting him go without knowing who a replacement could be. In the hockey forum though, people always want to know who the replacement would be.

I had no idea who Charlie Molnar was when Morris was fired, but I still supported the University's decision to fire Morris. My ignorance of who Charlie Molnar was did not mean that I could not tell Kevin Morris had to go. Going along the same lines, ignorance of who the next coach should be does not mean posters can't tell Don Cahoon has to go. I think people have the right to call for a coaches head without knowing who the replacement should be.

I fully understood before Dick Baker's article that they weren't going to fire Toot, and I'm ok with it. You can't pay for two football coaches and two hockey coaches. Also, I'm personally not sure I want Toot to be done here yet. However, they better not renew his contract. Make him earn it this next year. He can earn it with home ice and an NCAA tournament berth. Anything short of that means it's time to part ways in my opinion.

I understand the negatives of having a coach in his last year of a contract (especially with recruiting). However, I'm with people who think UMass is a sleeping giant in college hockey. Of hockey, football and basketball, I think UMass has the best chance to win a national title in hockey. With the exception of a year or two, they haven't shown that potential with this current coach.
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InnervisionsUMASS
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

InnervisionsUMASS wrote:
Morris took a strong team and made it worse over 3 years,...



I guess you missed that part of my post.
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meff
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As Innervisions said:
Quote:
I honestly don't know what can/will get us over the hump so that we can become a middle of the pack or top of the pack team year in and year out, but I am just not convinced that the way to get there is by canning him.


Exactly IV, I know bleedmaroon will come on and talk about Dennehy and Western Michigan and Lowell. I'll counter that with Northeastern, new coach helped to start the season but the team turned against him and the fans are already calling for his head. A new coach does not always cure all.

One thing I respect Toot for especially this year is the lack of off ice press the team gets, look at BU and BC the last year or so, accidents, and even worse. That alone is worth more than some people might think.

As jjmc said:
Quote:
However, I'm with people who think UMass is a sleeping giant in college hockey. Of hockey, football and basketball, I think UMass has the best chance to win a national title in hockey. With the exception of a year or two, they haven't shown that potential with this current coach.


I agree the best chance is in hockey, that being said there are teams like UNH who have made the run a few times and still have not title so its not easy to get there and even harder to maintain that level. But to say the potential hasn't been shown with the current coach is a bit unfair. Had UMass gotten by Maine in 2007 that years Frozen Four was fairly weak to be honest and was a pretty good shot at a national title - problem is what UML faced last weekend trying to beat the same team five times in one season, its hard. Not to mention they were a goal away from the NCAAs in 2004 as well.

I also honestly think it should be put in persepctive, 10th hardest schedule this season and its pretty hard other seasons, can a new coach get that much better of a player to come to UMass? Can a new coach keep players like Carlson on the college path and keep others like Quick, Marcou and Wellman in school? Think about what has happened since 2007 in terms of players leaving or not showing up, that doesn't help at all.

I will agree with one frustrating thing, the talent level on the team is as deep as it ever has been, so yes the results bother me, but is it the type of player Toot is bringing in, is it Toot or is it the talent pools at other schools are getting better and deeper at the same rate?

I'm not sure what the solution is, but I am very worried about recruting, if Toot doesn't get an extension and he has a great year say home ice and maybe the NCAAs, and then gets an extension he will be behind the 8ball in terms of recruits missing out on quality players. This is a very big issue, and as FTT pointed out, there are not many recruits in the pipeline right now and we have some large classes coming up. Confused
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78
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great. Maybe they want to get the program to the point where no one goes to the games anymore. Then they can get rid of Toot and find a new coach. The guy made the program semi-legit in Hockey East, but the last few years have not been good. I just can't wait for another year of consistent inconsistency, too many men on the ice penalties and another struggle to make the playoffs. As for a replacement, that's the AD's job, not mine. Who knows what young, up and coming coach might be out there?

As for being a sleeping giant, maybe so, but it might be one of the deepest sleeps I have ever seen.
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jjmc85
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

InnervisionsUMASS wrote:
InnervisionsUMASS wrote:
Morris took a strong team and made it worse over 3 years,...

I guess you missed that part of my post.

I acknowledge that part of your post. It doesn't change anything I wrote in my post. Smile

meff wrote:

As jjmc said:
Quote:
However, I'm with people who think UMass is a sleeping giant in college hockey. Of hockey, football and basketball, I think UMass has the best chance to win a national title in hockey. With the exception of a year or two, they haven't shown that potential with this current coach.


I agree the best chance is in hockey, that being said there are teams like UNH who have made the run a few times and still have not title so its not easy to get there and even harder to maintain that level. But to say the potential hasn't been shown with the current coach is a bit unfair. Had UMass gotten by Maine in 2007 that years Frozen Four was fairly weak to be honest and was a pretty good shot at a national title - problem is what UML faced last weekend trying to beat the same team five times in one season, its hard. Not to mention they were a goal away from the NCAAs in 2004 as well.
Those would be the year or two exceptions I was writing about.
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