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ShotPutNC · Junior Joined: 05 Feb 2012 Posts: 633 Location: Amherst

Fordham isn't going to get dumped. I'd like a 16 team A-10 with an East and West Division. Losing Temple and Replacing them with Butler is a good thing. But I would rather lose Temple/Char and replace them with Butler, VCU, GMU, and Siena/Valpo. The overall strength of the A-10 is better, and conferences can help some of the more distant teams offset some travel costs.

MikeUMA · Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 11:13 am Post subject:

InnervisionsUMASS · Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 11:17 am Post subject:

I understand that, it's just my preference.

And if we were going to go two divisions within the A-10, wouldn't a North and South alignment make more sense than an East-West one?
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Obadiah · Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 12:04 pm Post subject:

What you try to add are schools that strengthen the league in terms of size, facilities, fan base and tradition. What also is appealing is broadening the geographic exposure of the conference which in turn adds prestige to the current members and makes the schools better known in areas where they had no reputation. This approach may add to travel costs, but this can be offset by the greater PR achieved. Conferences with limited geography may have lower travel costs, but they also have lower national profile. All the large and prestigious conferences have moved to broader scope and only schools of small size or tight budgets key on geography. For example, the rap on the MAC has been it's too much of a Ohio, Michigan conference. Richmond left the old CAA because then it was too much a Virginia conference.

Using this perspective to screen additions to the A-10, the Ionas, BU's and Drexels and the like don't cut it, and schools that are attractive are Creighton, Bradley, and Southern Illinois. Adding such schools to the A-10 would strengthen the conference's western edge which may help mitigate the increased travel costs. Just some food for thought.

MikeUMA · Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 12:08 pm Post subject:

It's official. The A-10 just tweeted about Butler being in.
https://twitter.com/#!/atlantic10/status/197718111368134657

Butler release:
http://www.butlersports.com/releases/A-10

NilesGold · Senior Joined: 08 Apr 2012 Posts: 1328

Obadiah, you make good points, but I think you are putting too much importance on geographic expansion as it relates to the A-10. The A-10 already covers 9 states (if you include Charlotte) by my count. I won't deny that geographic expansion can be beneficial, especially if you are filling in gaps of coverage. But for the A-10 right now, I think it is far more important to add teams that consistently perform and have prestige and a large fan base, even if they reside in a region you already cover.

Chris20 · Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 1:19 pm Post subject:

What scares me about the Butler addition is the balance of power moving clearly West. If they go to divisions, you have Xavier-Dayton-Butler-SLU out there, and looking like partners for any pods or home and home set ups. Which leaves us East with URI, Bonaventure, Fordham, GW, etc.

We had a history with Temple and they are much closer than Butler....so that's one downside. We'll see how it shakes out, I guess.

uz2b-len · Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 1:30 pm Post subject:

Yeah, if we were in control of everthing, we wouldn't have Temple leaving. They have been one of our top rivals in the league. But they are leaving, so at least we have a quality replacement. I just hope Brad Stephens sticks around. I want to watch him coach in person.
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Obadiah · Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 1:56 pm Post subject:

Thanks for the reply Niles. I think you misunderstood some of my emphasis as I totally agree with your comment - "But for the A-10 right now, I think it is far more important to add teams that consistently perform and have prestige and a large fan base, even if they reside in a region you already cover."

Of the three schools I mentioned, only Creighton involves geographic expansion, the other two are within the current boundaries of the A-10 and fit your comment. By getting some MVC schools to join, you also give SLU some nearby partners. But the most important criteria is that all three schools have great facilities, sizable fan bases and basketball tradition.

East

St. Joe's
La Salle
GW
Fordham
URI
UMass
GMU
VCU
Richmond

West

St. Louis
Xavier
Dayton
Butler
Duquesne
St. Bona
Southern Illinois
Bradley/Creighton

Using the concept of playing each school at least once results in 15 conference games. Including three schools you play on a home and home basis nets another three games which brings the conference schedule to 18 games, two more than current. The Division breakdown has no meaning other than providing a way to identify the pool for the home and home partners.

NilesGold · Senior Joined: 08 Apr 2012 Posts: 1328

^ I think you're missing Richmond in your East/West divisions, which would give you 17 teams.

I wouldn't consider Bradley or Southern Illinois to be desirable at all. I don't think they have that much of a fan base or basketball tradition and they certainly haven't performed consistently on the court in recent years.

Creighton is a solid program, but I don't think it's worth adding a team that plays so far away from most everyone else in the conference (Nebraska).

I think Drexel and Davidson are better options than the three you mentioned.

MikeUMA · Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 2:34 pm Post subject:

UMass issued a small release regarding Butler. I can't find it on their site as yet, so quoting it here...

Crank · Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 3:52 pm Post subject:

For what it's worth, this Tweet just came out (3:05) from Mat Shelton who covers VCU for VCURamNation.com:

@MATSHELTON: Just got this in an email about VCU/A10. "It appears you will get your wish, and it's coming quickly............" HOLD ON TIGHT RAM FANS!

Old Cage · Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 4:46 pm Post subject:

History shows Butler doesn't need to change to thrive in Atlantic 10
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/luke_winn/05/02/butler.atlantic.10/index.html?eref=twitter_feed
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Obadiah · Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 5:37 pm Post subject:

Niles, thanks for catching the Richmond typo. I was just offering some thoughts on the A-10 expansion and none of it is anything that I am adamant about.

But I was puzzled by your comment - "I wouldn't consider Bradley or Southern Illinois to be desirable at all. I don't think they have that much of a fan base or basketball tradition and they certainly haven't performed consistently on the court in recent years." And then offered up Drexel and Davidson instead.

Granted both Southern Illinois and Bradley have had some bad seasons recently, but the overall facts surrounding those schools seem to contradict your comment.

Bradley has 6000 students, plays in a 11,000 seat arena and drew this past season an average of 8000 fans per game. Not bad for a 7-25 team. Bradley has been to the NCAA eight times (last in 2006). Been to the NIT 21 times with a championship.

SIU has 16,000 students, plays in a 8700 seat arena and with a 8-23 team drew about 4000 per game last year. SIU has been to 10 NCAAs and went to six straight in the 2002-07 period marked by two sweet sixteens. Has been to the NIT nine times with one championship.

Drexel has nothing comparable in its basketball archives.

NilesGold · Senior Joined: 08 Apr 2012 Posts: 1328

You're absolutely right. I wasn't at all familiar with either team (Bradley, SIU). I looked at their performances over the last 3-4 years and make a snap judgement based on that and inflated my opinion of Drexel because I knew they had a few good years since Bruiser Flint came on board. I would be a little concerned over the direction of the programs at Bradley & SIU (considering their poor performance in the last few years) and I think Davidson is at least as good, if not a better choice for the A-10.