| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| How bad are the race relations in this country? |
| Good |
|
18% |
[ 4 ] |
| So-so |
|
59% |
[ 13 ] |
| In need of major work |
|
13% |
[ 3 ] |
| A Potential Terminal Illness |
|
9% |
[ 2 ] |
|
| Total Votes : 22 |
|
| Author |
Message |
SFL89
Junior
Joined: 02 Apr 2003
Posts: 496
Location: Upstate SC
|
 Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 11:03 am Post subject: |
 |
|
This quote from your earlier post is the "bubble" I was referring to:
This isn't about race, at all, EVER. To continue to annoint things like this as milestones only sets us back and creates a further divide between blacks and whites. This was a big deal in the 1940's, 1950's, 1960's and 1970's. It shouldn't be looked upon today as anything more than a good ref who has never done a Super Bowl getting his chance. We've moved far along in our culture and our country that this should not be a a big deal... no, sorry, any kind of "deal"... at all."
And, the two bolded lines, sound like you're trying to say that racism doesn't exist. Your words, not mine, or "local's". |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
local
Junior
Joined: 15 May 2003
Posts: 742
Location: WMass
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 11:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
"Al Sharpton and the media keep trying to make race an issue in areas where it is not an issue"
Race is an issue in employment of all kinds NFL or not. While a fair system exists for determining who refs the superbowl, it only works if you hire minority refs to begin with. The NFL has 2 out of 17. Given the number of black men involved in football at all levels and the fact that most of the refs have some connection to football to begin with this is not that many. So lets not pretend that the issue is not real.
_________________
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."- HST |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kdogg8173
Senior
Joined: 10 Apr 2003
Posts: 1724
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Again the assumption is made that there are a number of black people that want to be refs. Do you know this, ive never heard it.
Its true that the nfl has a black coaching problem but that has been well established and the NFL has mandated black coaching rules over something they dont have complete control. Now if they made rules over something that they dont even have the final decision on but yet are encouraging teams to hire minority candidates, dont you think they would take action over something they have complete control over like refereeing (sp)? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
InnervisionsUMASS
Hall of Fame
Joined: 04 Apr 2003
Posts: 16587
Location: Milford, MA
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| SFL89 wrote: | This quote from your earlier post is the "bubble" I was referring to:
This isn't about race, at all, EVER. To continue to annoint things like this as milestones only sets us back and creates a further divide between blacks and whites. This was a big deal in the 1940's, 1950's, 1960's and 1970's. It shouldn't be looked upon today as anything more than a good ref who has never done a Super Bowl getting his chance. We've moved far along in our culture and our country that this should not be a a big deal... no, sorry, any kind of "deal"... at all."
And, the two bolded lines, sound like you're trying to say that racism doesn't exist. Your words, not mine, or "local's". |
Your interpretation, not my meaning. Race is still an issue, and unfortunately it always will be. The problem is that we have come so far along in our culture that things like "first black person to ref a super bowl" should not be viewed as a milestone or step or anything. It is what it is: a PERSON officiating a game.
Add to the fact that we have things like affirmative action which only work in this day and age to continue to separate colors rather than integrate all of us and you have things that continue to perpetuate race issues. It is a vicious circle that contines
Racism exists. It is an unfortunate occurrence in our world. The problem you two seem to have is your inability to see how far we have come as a country, not me living in a bubble. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LooneyGoon
Senior
Joined: 23 Mar 2004
Posts: 969
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 4:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
This is a non-story, period.
Congratulations to Mike Carey. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
philosopher
Hall of Fame
Joined: 02 Apr 2003
Posts: 3487
Location: The Berkshires
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| InnervisionsUMASS wrote: | | Add to the fact that we have things like affirmative action which only work in this day and age to continue to separate colors rather than integrate all of us and you have things that continue to perpetuate race issues. It is a vicious circle that contines |
I don't buy it, IV. Why does affirmative action work to continue to separate colors (I wish you had chosen a more generic term like "people")? What are the things that continue to perpetuate the disparity of opportunity for people of color? WTF is going on that prevents our society from becoming open? IV, what will it take to break, I mean utterly shatter, what you call a vicious circle?
SFL lives in a part of this country where racism can be pretty blatant. So do I. When I moved from Houston to Penn State, I had people asking me why I was moving "up south, where you can't tell so easily who your enemies are?" I thought they were pulling my leg, but found at PSU a system that was so rife with incipient racism the Big Ten almost turned them down for conference entry.
This is a story. It is a reality. Why? How is it to be conquered? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
zuksnj
Senior
Joined: 25 Apr 2003
Posts: 853
Location: San Antone, Texas
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 11:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
IV, if everybody thought like you then we wouldnt have this problem in the first place but not everyone thinks like you or want equality. We are less than 50 years from the time that blacks were being lynched in public and you think we've come so far that it is not even an issue AT all anymore. We're not talking about your yahoo racists, we are talking about institutional racism that has never been a problem for whites. And the irish and italians can't say it's the same because if they change their name then nobody would know that they are irish or italian.
_________________
And still heavyweight champ..Umass basketball! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LS71
Hall of Fame
Joined: 02 Apr 2003
Posts: 5466
Location: Lost in Space
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 10:34 am Post subject: |
|
|
There are deeper sociologoical issues that need to be addressed, epecially in the cities. The notion that it's "white" to get a good education needs to be deiscreditied permanently to help inner city kids of color understand that education is the way out of poverty. These kids are every bit as capable as their white counterparts. When that's done there will be a larger number of qualified, ethnically diverse candidates to present to hiring managers.
Don't forget that there have also been times in this country when job ads clearly stated that Jews or Italians or Irish or Catholics need not apply. It hasn't only been an issue for people of color.
_________________
"Win without boasting, lose without crying." -- Julius Erving |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
philosopher
Hall of Fame
Joined: 02 Apr 2003
Posts: 3487
Location: The Berkshires
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 1:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| zuksnj wrote: | | We are less than 50 years from the time that blacks were being lynched in public |
Less than 10 years, if you considered being dragged behind a pickup truck in Jasper, Texas, by guys you actually worked with on the job. Or look at Jena, Louisiana. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jack
Hall of Fame
Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Posts: 3033
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 3:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| philosopher wrote: | | zuksnj wrote: | | We are less than 50 years from the time that blacks were being lynched in public |
Less than 10 years, if you considered being dragged behind a pickup truck in Jasper, Texas, by guys you actually worked with on the job. Or look at Jena, Louisiana. |
And that has what to do with Mike Carey being a referee in an overhyped football game??? 
lets stop trying to turn Mike Carey into Jackie Robinson and just let the guy referee a football game. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
zuksnj
Senior
Joined: 25 Apr 2003
Posts: 853
Location: San Antone, Texas
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| philosopher wrote: | | zuksnj wrote: | | We are less than 50 years from the time that blacks were being lynched in public |
Less than 10 years, if you considered being dragged behind a pickup truck in Jasper, Texas |
Yeah but at least they get arrested for it now.
_________________
And still heavyweight champ..Umass basketball! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wardy
Hall of Fame
Joined: 09 Apr 2003
Posts: 2240
Location: Naptown
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| The City of Baltimore is home of the NAACP and dominated by African-American politics. Mike Carey is without a doubt the MOST HATED referee in Baltimore. Why? Because the city blames him for ejecting both Ray Lewis and Terrell Suggs for bumping him 2 years ago in a game in Detroit. The Ravens are something like 2-8 in games which he refs. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
zuksnj
Senior
Joined: 25 Apr 2003
Posts: 853
Location: San Antone, Texas
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Jack wrote: |
lets stop trying to turn Mike Carey into Jackie Robinson and just let the guy referee a football game. |
I'm not really relating this to Mike Carey but more as in response to the developing discussion about how we should just forget all of it and put the past behind us.
_________________
And still heavyweight champ..Umass basketball! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jack
Hall of Fame
Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Posts: 3033
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 8:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| zuksnj wrote: | | Jack wrote: |
lets stop trying to turn Mike Carey into Jackie Robinson and just let the guy referee a football game. |
I'm not really relating this to Mike Carey but more as in response to the developing discussion about how we should just forget all of it and put the past behind us. |
I'm not sure who is advocating that we do that. Any intelligent graduate of the University of Massachusetts would know that having an understanding and appreciation of the history of race and discrimination and civil rights in america and the world is critical to understanding the context of modern political discourse and thought.
But Mike Carey is an NFL referee. He isn't Rosa Parks. I'm just not buying that a black referee in the super bowl is some sort of important benchmark accomplishment in the history of the american civil rights movement. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
local
Junior
Joined: 15 May 2003
Posts: 742
Location: WMass
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 11:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Jack wrote: | | zuksnj wrote: | | Jack wrote: |
lets stop trying to turn Mike Carey into Jackie Robinson and just let the guy referee a football game. |
I'm not really relating this to Mike Carey but more as in response to the developing discussion about how we should just forget all of it and put the past behind us. |
I'm not sure who is advocating that we do that. Any intelligent graduate of the University of Massachusetts would know that having an understanding and appreciation of the history of race and discrimination and civil rights in america and the world is critical to understanding the context of modern political discourse and thought.
But Mike Carey is an NFL referee. He isn't Rosa Parks. I'm just not buying that a black referee in the super bowl is some sort of important benchmark accomplishment in the history of the american civil rights movement. |
I don't think any one is saying that this is some historical benchmark in the history of civil rights. I was a little shocked after 42 years this had never happened. Which is why the newspaper printed it, its kind of interesting.
_________________
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."- HST |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
